Thanks for joining us for episode six of Field Forward. We're gonna be talking about BIM from model to job site. Little bit about BIM. BIM has moved far beyond the design phase, but closing the gap between the model and the field is still one of construction's greatest challenges. In this episode, we'll dig into how the teams that are doing it the best are using billing information modeling, to reduce clashes before change orders, improve coordination between trades, and put real time model access directly into the hands of the people doing the work. You'll hear how one of those teams that's doing it really well, what's working for them, and how they're getting accuracy and confidence from groundbreak through closeout. Please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your background and experience in construction tech. Hey. Thanks for having me, Joe. My name is Suril Patel. I'm with Joeris General Contractors, director of construction technology. I've been at Joeris, it'll be ten years, I think this June. Started out in the field, started from labor intern, moved into the PE role once I graduated college, And then did about five or six projects in the field. At twenty twenty one, kinda started to see the shift in, you know, technology, the importance of not just BIM, but even reality capture and kinda AI starting to play a role. And so switched into the the tech side of construction and kind of been in in here ever since. Awesome. Tell us a little bit about your kinda like what y'all specialize in, what kind of work you do. Yeah. K through twelve is our kind of bread and butter throughout So we have an office in in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, and Austin. And Austin is where I'm located. And we do industrial, retail is another big one, higher education, and just kinda office spaces and and just a mixed bag all over the place. Awesome. Great. So you told us a little bit about how you first got involved with BIM. What convinced you it was worth the investment of time and resources? Yeah. So, obviously, being in the field started with BIM on that side before I got into the VDC side. And so the last project I was on was kind of one of the first project we revamped our our BIM program at Joris. And so during COVID, I was building an elementary school. And through the whole BIM coordination process, kinda opened my eyes to seeing, like, why are we putting the time and the resources behind, you know, this many hours and the technology itself. Through that process, we ended up finding about three fourths of the schoolhouse building. The MEP system, specifically the mechanical system, was probably four inches to a foot and a half below the ceiling. And so we were able to catch it pretty early on to where we didn't have anything fabricated. And so spent a few probably a couple months in just a shin redesign with the engineers and the and the trade partners. And so from that, I think finding that was a high six figure cost that could have been that came out of that, and we're able to avoid all of that early on and and really just be able to focus on the redesign, recoordination side of it versus putting out fires six months later. Yeah. Yeah. That's the that that would have been a a tough tough pill to swallow if you'd have gotten any for for a long. Yeah. So you actually just kinda told us a little bit about how clash detection, like, works in practice. And then you talked about a real project where that happened. How early does it need to start to make a difference? So, like, where were y'all at in the process when you found that and kinda tell us about how how that went? Yeah. So, typically, like, BIM coordination side, we wanna at least kick off and kinda set the standard and and make sure everybody on all sides knows the process. Beginning in early, almost before a contract is even signed, is usually what we'll try to do kickoff. But even earlier than that, we do not necessarily BIM, but clash detection in a constructability review format. Probably fifty percent, you know, DDs up to a hundred percent CDs for the drawing sets that we get. And we'll try to at least take the design models from from those points and run clash detection with them and be able to at least turn over the issues we found early on before contract, before change orders necessary. That allows the design team and ourselves to coordinate those items before, you know, we go into GMP and have a contract and bid day and everything. So, that's kinda where we start. It's pretty early on. Yeah. I would say probably a hundred percent DD phase is where we try to get in. Awesome. How has BIM changed the way different teams communicate and coordinate with each other? And what does that look like when it's working really well? Yeah. I think it changes a lot. I think really the biggest thing for far as communication is just changing how early the communication happens. I think that's the the biggest thing, and it opens up a kind of a channel to just more communication. So if we're talking weekly versus, you know, this trade started in February, the next one's going up in April, they might not talk for a few months. But if we're doing BAM and we're talking, you know, once a week, twice a week, that opens that live communication very early on. And then we we do a really good, I think, job of allowing the trade partners to coordinate with themselves. So we don't necessarily need to be there for, you know, every phone call, every conversation. And so I think just having that kinda openness with the trade partners allows that collaboration to happen. That's awesome. Yeah. That's a great answer. What would you say are the biggest barriers to getting the model into the field, Whether it's like device access, connectivity, training, something else, kinda how do you work around those? Yeah. Well, it's all the above that we've had issues with. Specifically training and just like connectivity. It's hard sometimes. Most of our projects are not inner in the city. They're really just on the outskirts of some of these major Texas cities. And so that was a a big issue, but being able to just have those models, being able to be downloaded offline, and having them to be used offline is is a big win. And then just being able to train people, I think, starting with, you new project teams and and starting there and training them, especially once you have coordination. Maybe you have it completed right now. They're gonna run into construction with the final models and shop drawings. It's good to go out there and be able to train the team on how to use those models. And I think for us, we've been able to now change our platform. We're using Procore, and so being able to use the models tool in there just makes it more accessible for all of our teams, and they're already in the platform, so they're not having to navigate to another one, and everything is already in their project. Yeah. A little bit of a bonus question just because it came up. Do you think your previous experience in the field, like boots on the ground, makes it easier for you to train and help project teams, like, get on board with the tech, just like having had the experience in both seats? Yeah. A hundred percent. And I was using a complete different and older technology back when I was in the field for model viewing. And but, yeah, I think the experience of already knowing what they're thinking and and maybe how they're doing their processes and day to days definitely helps a lot in just understanding how we can just improve their efficiencies. That's awesome. Awesome. So can you share a specific example where having real like, real time model access on the job site prevented a mistake, resolved confusion, saved meaningful time or money? You talked about the the, like, HVAC example earlier. Do you have any others where you can point to? Yeah. I mean, just specifically, like, teams, trade partners being with a model in the field during construction. Good one is we had a, say, like, seven to nine story higher ed building that we were just renovating. It wasn't a new build or anything. We had done VIM on it for, I would say, six to ten months. And it was just a very, very tight, like, ceiling space where the design team wasn't, you know, trying to lower the ceilings or anything like that. So we had to fit a lot in a very tight space. So example of that, when I actually went to go visit that project, they did a really good job including and using the model during construction because they they basically had, like, the flanges of ducts and, like, fire lines and everything just maybe one to two inches from the ceiling grid from the tees. And so there were instances where the tees had to be cut in portions to just accommodate, you know, avoiding vibration onto the the ceiling. So them using the model that we had coordinated and then turning those into shop drawings was a huge win because it was such a tight space. You couldn't have just built it without a three d view. It was just too tight of a a place, and I think that was a a huge win. That's awesome. Yeah. That's a really good example. How do you get field crews to actually trust and use the model instead of falling back on printed drawings or gut instincts? So you just described the example where, like, you couldn't fall back on printed drawings. There's wasn't enough room, but just in the general, like, day. Yeah. And so our printed drawings end up being used because from BIM coordination, we turn them into two d shop drawings. So they're kinda using one or the other, but it is the BIM model. Right? And maybe we just flattened it. So that that's one way that helps the trade partners and superintendents be able to trust the drawings, is that they know that these are the final coordinated drawings where we've signed them off. We know that we might be aware of the issues that are gonna be field coordinated. I think that's a big thing. Yeah. And that, you know, and there'll be two d. And then, like, for our side of the the project team, for the GC side, we definitely want them in those pro core models to be able to trust those models that they are the most accurate and latest ones. And, like, we can always pull back the previous ones from there and and actually see the differences and, you know, maybe what had changed when we signed off this area versus the next one. So, I think it's just making sure they're they're trusting what outputs that we've we've put out for them, basically. Yeah. No. That's a that's a great answer. How does keeping the model current throughout construction, as obviously conditions change, RFIs come in, designs get revised, affect accuracy and confidence in the field. So basically keeping that model, you know, current. Yeah. I think keeping it current, we don't do it on every project, keeping it current, but we have some jobs where there's a requirement for it to maintain an aspect model throughout the project. And on those projects, I definitely have seen, you know, a huge kind of alleviation of, you know, minor issues that we'd normally see, you know, as we progress. But on all jobs, we do incorporate RFIs, design changes, and owner changes in into the final model. And so I I think it opens up a huge door of confidence and accuracy for installation and just making sure that, you know, we're providing the right and latest models to those teams. And then the trade partners knowing that, hey. If we're sending you an RFI or, you know, an ASI change order, that they they have the responsibility to run with those design changes and incorporate them into their either their shop drawings that they have or their field teams or that has a bit model that they're providing. Yeah. That makes that makes a lot of sense. What role do you see BIM playing in connecting the field to other systems like scheduling, quality control, safety, and how close are we to that being a reality on most job site? Yeah. There's definitely some tools out there that are kind of incorporating like the schedule into RealityCapture and Vim. Right? We we're piloting one currently. We've had on, I think, a couple projects now and seeing that, I guess, that kind of third dimension of the or fourth dimension of reality capture and them being time and being the scheduling portion and being added to it. It's been a huge help being able to, like, really keep the trade partners accountable for the schedule and for their manpower and being able to see, like, okay. These are the areas completed. This is, you know, where you guys deviated from the actual schedule. And so just seeing that, like, data in in real time has been really useful. I think taking that data and being able to use it, whether it's for your owner, design team, or for the trade partners is really important. Being able to just have it, I think, is important because we've never been able to really have all three or four of those kinda items combined into to one platform. And there's definitely some room to, I think, improve far as the quality aspect of how the reality capture ties into all of it. But I think we're we're getting there in the next few years. Yeah. We're seeing it get better and better. All the players that are entering, it's just kinda crazy to see the schedule. Like, electrical's this far or plumbing is this far, and they're using all the photos to to do that, which I think is neat. Yeah. And I think it's nice not having to you know, if you're on a major huge site, you're not having to walk every floor or every area, and you can kinda go into a platform and, you know, see maybe who's ninety percent done, who hasn't started yet, and just saving a lot of time in that that aspect. Yeah. And for people who haven't been on on a constructive side, of course, most of our people listening have, but it's so critical how, like, someone being eighty percent finished is when someone else can get started or how those different trades have to work together, coordinating, like, obviously, drywall can't go up if, you know, the things behind that drywall aren't aren't built yet. So it's interesting. It's always interesting to to see that when you've got good visibility on it, you can adjust and people can make better moves. You finish on time or early, which is, you know, what everybody's goal is, I'm sure. Yeah. I totally agree. Alright. Two questions left. So for a team that's barely scratching the surface of BIM right now, what's the one thing that they could do in the next thirty days to start closing the gap between the model and the field? I think to close the gap from the model and the field, I think the best thing and the one thing you can do to start now is just start with one team. Go out there on their project site, tour their site, see what they're doing now for QAQC, train them up on how they can incorporate that model into their daily workflow, make it as easy as it can be for, whether it's, you know, creating a shortcut or just offloading that model on their iPad or computer. I think just overall, just starting with that one team and training them, and then as they go to their next ones, they'll be able to hopefully be the trainer to their team. Awesome. Yeah. So I appreciate all the great insight. We've got one bonus question or two bonus questions. Texas edition. Favorite boot brand? Favorite boot brand. I'm a I'm a have to go with probably the local favorite Tacomas. Just the quality of them has been pretty amazing. I'm trying to get my second and third pair here pretty soon. I like it. I went into a Tacoma store in Charlotte recently. They they fancy. They fancy. Awesome. Alright. That's barbecue in Austin if you had to pick one. Dang. This one, probably not what everyone would say. It's unique. I would say barbecue. It's a mix of Egyptian and Texas barbecue. It's really close to where I'm at, and it's just so different, but still keeps kind of a that still the same Texas flavored, brisket mixed with, an Egyptian style bowl. I think I think it's real. That sounds awesome. I'm gonna have to try that next time I'm in Austin. Yeah. It's solid. Well, thank you for joining me, Suril, and thank you to everyone who's watching. If you want more insights on construction tech, be sure to follow our LinkedIn page and the episode to Field Forward. You can find those on our website and our YouTube channel. Thanks again for joining us.